What's the deal with spears? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Quaker · Aug 03, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

That's why you have four weapon sets, so you can switch.

I have yet to run into anything in PvE that required weapon set switching. It goes back to what I said earlier about PvP tactics in PvE.
Of course, on the other hand, I like to just get high and have fun - micro-managing the Heroes is bad enough without maniacally swapping weapons so that I can kill something a few seconds sooner.

Lillium · Aug 03, 2010, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Hm, +5e plus 20% longer enchants plus 33% longer dazed (plus shield mods).

Is that really better than the 10e, plus +5e, plus +5e^50 (20e total), plus 20% enchants, plus HSR 20%, that you could get with a staff? In all cases?

Or 10e, plus +5e^50, plus +30 health, plus 20% enchants?

Personally, I've always hated 20/20 sets for how they stack (or more don't). I get the best of both worlds for my monk with a +5e +20%ench spear and an offhand (only 3 less energy than a 20energy staff), and then have a shield swap with both pieces giving +30hp and +45hp ench. I run a similar setup with my necro (when MM'ing). Note both of those classes tend to make very heavy use of enchantments.

On my mesmer and rit a staff is miles better (imo) since you're not using the primary benefit of a spear: enchantments that need lengthened. On a rit with many builds (excluding SoS) you're not even going to have your weapons because of an item spell. Both of these classes tend to wand a lot between casting (or summoning spirits), so you do actually want a weapon you meet the req for damage. The exception may be unless you're bringing a necro with barbs/MoP. There is always an exception... which is why you've got 4 weapon set spaces.

A use I don't think I saw mentioned... Running inbetween mobs. Sticking a defensive shield set on in the many missions etc where you just run by a set (or several) of mobs instead of killing them to save time is obviously almost always beneficial. Which is the general reason you'll see a shield (and the more or less default spear thanks to pvp) on assassins everywhere. That and when they need to back off and heal.

I'd also point out that, aside from min/max'ing, if you want to use a +20% ench for a lot of people the cost of a base weapon and the mods may actually be a factor for more casual or new players. Sitting around Spamadan you can always find a +20% sword hilt or axe grip cheaper (and imo faster) than a +20% spear mod, which in turn people tend to be willing to fork out even more for the +20% staff wrapping. Green staves with +20 energy and +20% ench are uncommon and (comparatively) expensive; most only have +15 energy, +20% ench, and something much less useful. All of this assuming you have no luck and don't find any of it in a great give away or 1k greens storage clear. Getting an offhand or shield from there is very easy, since they tend to be the primary suspects of such give aways and clears right after odd wands.

Skyy High · Aug 03, 2010, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Hm, +5e plus 20% longer enchants plus 33% longer dazed (plus shield mods).

Is that really better than the 10e, plus +5e, plus +5e^50 (20e total), plus 20% enchants, plus HSR 20%, that you could get with a staff? In all cases?

Or 10e, plus +5e^50, plus +30 health, plus 20% enchants?

Is the loss of the extra energy and/or HCT and/or other mods really worth the longer dazed? How about when the party already has a BHA interrupt Ranger?

Bottom line - it's always a trade-off. There are no mods that are "just that much better".

Spear and focus versus equivalent staff:

First gets you +17e, 20% HCT, 20% HSR, 20% enchants, and a possible prefix mod on the spear if it suits.

Second gets you +15e, 20% HCT, 20% HSR, 20% enchants.

If you want energy and enchants, the spear and focus is better by 2 energy and the prefix mod. This is why there was all the hubbub about the HoD swords giving players an advantage of 2 energy, all those years ago now.

Now, if you want an Adept head instead of +5e, you could do that with the staff while keeping the +20% enchants, but that's a choice the player has to make.

The point is, in contrast to what Rhamia said, there actually IS a reason to sit in a spear + focus set while casting. It just so happens that defensive sets are so rarely useful in PvE that it's just not worth the 7 or so extra inventory slots it would take to carry a shield for each damage type. I want to pick up drops, ya know.

@Lillium: I don't know what you're talking about, 20/20 sets stack fine.

Lillium · Aug 03, 2010, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by from the wiki

Each HCT and HSR effect has an independent chance of being triggered, so with a two item bonuses which each grant a 20% chance for activation of HCT or HSR, the total chance of getting the bonus at least once is 36%, and the total chance for getting the bonus exactly once is 32%.

The chance for one of the bonuses to be activated twice is 4%. This means in case of HCT that the spell will activate four times as fast as normally. The HSR bonus will take effect only once in any case since skill recharge modification is limited to 50%.

It does stack yes... But you're throwing all of your bonuses into something that's relatively meh unless your entire build(s) is based around long casting long recharging spells. 20% on each is sufficient, the point seems more that 4% chance of quartered CT/SR. And I hate small % chances to be the target of your main gear.
Let's hope none of your spells are expensive since you've probably only got an energy pool of 42 (unless you're an ele) if you stuck all armor/hp bonuses on your armor as is so reccomended. You're gimping yourself out to not have more energy, hit points, or armor from your weapon set so you can cast a bit sooner? And on a % chance that may not even trigger at all sometimes. I totally understand why a fire or earth elementalists might do this, since they have very long recharge times and an extra source of an energy pool to work with. But I still don't like it, nor do I think its beneficial enough to most other classes/builds.

R_Frost · Aug 03, 2010, 10:15 PM // 22:15

plus lets not forget the AI is pretty dumb, running a spear and focus or shield the AI tends to not cast the anti caster spells on you. where if you were running a staff or wand and focus you have to account for that in battle. i do have a high energy set on my monk only, but rarely use it like i use to when i grouped up in a PUG. i seem to not have energy issues when i H/H or play with guild/alliance mates.

Luminarus · Aug 05, 2010, 06:10 AM // 06:10

In pve it doesnt matter what ur using unless ur doing a farm that requires an enchanting mod, or -2 damage from ur shield. Hence I use it coz i prefer the look of a shield and spear (or sword, or axe) to a wand/focii or staff. Saying that, I can also run with a staff or watever in pve coz it really doesnt matter.

In Pvp, i tend to swap in and out more depending on what im doing, but in reality when it comes down to it, its not really worth it most of the time. Unless im running a mesmer when a HCT or HSR on Diversion can determine whether it gets through, or the big skills get through. High End it would make a diff where ur facing decent interupters, and spikes, but in low end it really doesnt make a difference, coz they are unlikely to be able to hit anything under 1 second cast regardless as to whether u HCT it or not.

Aug 03, 2010, 10:15 PM // 22:15	#25
R_Frost Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California Profession: Me/	plus lets not forget the AI is pretty dumb, running a spear and focus or shield the AI tends to not cast the anti caster spells on you. where if you were running a staff or wand and focus you have to account for that in battle. i do have a high energy set on my monk only, but rarely use it like i use to when i grouped up in a PUG. i seem to not have energy issues when i H/H or play with guild/alliance mates.

Aug 05, 2010, 06:10 AM // 06:10	#26
Luminarus Furnace Stoker Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Guild: Haze of Light [pure] Profession: R/	In pve it doesnt matter what ur using unless ur doing a farm that requires an enchanting mod, or -2 damage from ur shield. Hence I use it coz i prefer the look of a shield and spear (or sword, or axe) to a wand/focii or staff. Saying that, I can also run with a staff or watever in pve coz it really doesnt matter. In Pvp, i tend to swap in and out more depending on what im doing, but in reality when it comes down to it, its not really worth it most of the time. Unless im running a mesmer when a HCT or HSR on Diversion can determine whether it gets through, or the big skills get through. High End it would make a diff where ur facing decent interupters, and spikes, but in low end it really doesnt make a difference, coz they are unlikely to be able to hit anything under 1 second cast regardless as to whether u HCT it or not.